Rowan Williams says . . .

". . . there are an awful lot of people now of a certain generation who don't really know how religion works, let alone Christianity in particular".

Oh really? and I wonder what generation he is referring to, taking into account that Christianity is the UK's official religion, established by law, his church has been around in this country since Henry VIII, and it has privileged access to our children from age 5. Could it be that his church is doing something wrong, or just that increasing numbers are looking at religion, thinking for themselves and rejecting it for the superstitious, backward nonsense that it is: devoid of modern significance, and still chasing to catch up, as it has down the centuries, with enlightened ethical and moral values.

Separation of Church & State - epetitions

Three epetitions have appeared on HM government website calling for disestablishment and the ending of religious privilege:-

• Disestablish the Church of England. "With the British Social Attitudes survey showing that just 20% of the population are C of E, and that 50% have no religion at all, England should no longer remain one of the only developed countries to have a state religion."
• Separation of church and state. "Modern Society has no place for preferential treatment to any religious organisation or faith. Freedom to practice religion is fundamental to democracy however state interference is undemocratic. Arguing the Church has no power through its establishment is false, 26 Bishops sit in the House of Lords. The United Kingdom is host to many different faiths, including atheists who are not represented by an established church. The UK government should lead a debate on the merits of church and state separation."
• Separate the Church from the State. "This petition calls for the Dis-Establishment of the Church of England, the end of the Bishops' automatic seat in the House of Lords, the removal of religious ceremony from our Government institutions and the end of State-subsidised faith schools. There should be no State-sanctioned religious privilege."

If you are a UK citizen and believe that there is no good reason why people who believe in sky-fairies should be trusted with the business of government, why not sign all three?

BHA calls for disestablishment

BHA renews call for disestablishment as Church of England meets to discuss atheism and secularism

"This is a tension at the heart of the Church of England which demands resolution. The Church of England wishes – as a church – to promote Christianity and of course it should be free to do so, but it should not be privileged in doing so, and it is not legitimate for it to enlist our shared and publicly-funded schools, social services and our parliament in its evangelistic task."

Richard Dawkins at the "Protest the Pope" march

The full speech in Downing Street at the end of the march.
Photos of the march can be seen on this Page.

The Church of England

I went to a CofE primary school and it was pretty ineffectual as regards indoctrinating me into Christianity. The CofE is senile and relatively harmless and I used to think it was worth tolerating for its quaint historical link with our culture & constitution. The problem arises that in modern, anything-goes, England it has opened the door to alien, militant religions who are committed to exploiting ruthlessly any opportunity for recruiting to the ranks of unreason.

The slow whiny death of British Christianity

 An excellent article by Jonathan Hari is worth reading in full but here are a few tasters below:-

• How did it happen? For centuries, religion was insulated from criticism in Britain. First its opponents were burned, then jailed, then shunned. But once there was a free marketplace of ideas, once people could finally hear both the religious arguments and the rationalist criticisms of them, the religious lost the British people. Their case was too weak, their opposition to divorce and abortion and gay people too cruel, their evidence for their claims non-existent. Once they had to rely on persuasion rather than intimidation, the story of British Christianity came to an end.
• A five year old will make friends with anyone, and he'll be much less likely to believe smears against those friends for the rest of their lives. But in Britain today, that mixing is happening less and less. Increasingly, the children of Christians are sent to one side, Jews to another, Muslims to another still, and they never see each other except from the window of their parents' cars. After the race riots in Bradford, Oldham and Burnley in 2001, the official investigations found that faith schools were a major cause.
• As their dusty Churches crumble because nobody wants to go there, the few remaining Christians in Britain will only become more angry and uncomprehending. Let them. We can't stop this hysterical toy-tossing stop us from turning our country into a secular democracy where everyone has the same rights, and nobody is granted special rights just because they claim their ideas come from an invisible supernatural being. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a Holy Lamb of God to carve into kebabs - it's our new national dish. Amen, and hallelujah.

The Haitian Earthquake blame game . . .

A blogger called DrastiContrast is supportive of Pat Robertson's idea that the  Haitians themselves are to blame for the earthquake. The argument is that, although Haitians are 83% Christian, they have in fact called down God's wrath with their residual voodoo practices. (I suppose eating Christ's body, drinking his blood and kissing crucifixes is OK but not sticking pins in dolls).

DC first responded to a post by a moderate (by US standards) christian lady Patrice on 'Rural Revolution' and then continued to rant on his own blog 'Exodus'. Quedula has been in pursuit with short pointed comments and thinks she might have nailed him with her latest, reproduced below. (But better not hold your breath)

DrastiContrast,

Thank you for interrupting  your busy schedule to respond to my posts. 


I assure you a basic ontological discussion is not required as your starting point is made clear in your opening sentence. In common with the middle eastern bronze age scribes, you assume the existence of some supernatural entity and on that assumption erect an edifice of dogma. The difference between you and the ancient writers is that they at least had the excuse of ignorance about the workings of the natural world, indeed were in outright terror of plagues, earthquakes, storms, famines.


You are entitled to your own opinions but not to present them as authoritative. A very large section of the christian community prefer to interpret their religion in an entirely different way including I believe Patrice and the Church of England. Your extraordinary need to find a way to blame the Haitians for the natural disaster that has befallen them tells me more about your own personality than  the validity of your beliefs.

Interfaith Week

Some potent thoughts for Interfaith Week from Dinah commenting on Platitude of the Day for 16th November 2009; "Reverend Canon Doctor Alan Billings":


"To achieve religious toleration there have to be neutral spaces in society such as schools, workplaces, political assemblies and public services where people regardless of their beliefs or non-beliefs can meet on an equal footing: places indeed where religious faith ought to be irrelevant. By continually pushing a religious agenda into such spaces, the government risks fatally undermining this neutrality, and increasing intolerance, because whatever Karen Armstrong thinks, most religions are at heart incompatible.

Billings’s job is to sell Christianity as the one true faith where the only path to salvation is through Jesus Christ. This would be regarded as blasphemy by a Muslim. They can’t both be right (though they could of course both be wrong). Given this, tolerance can only go so far, and can only work when religion is separated from the state and for the most part confined to private spaces.

If Billings and his ilk were serious about promoting religious toleration, they would be avidly promoting secularism, not continually griping about it undermining religion and chipping away at its foundations.

Thanks to the mainly abysmal teaching of history in the UK today few people today learn about the religious intolerance in our past, which makes them easy meat for religious propagandists. By all means have RE in schools, but make it mandatory to include real religion, its history and its dark side with examples from all faiths."

Pat Condell's latest

You've got it Pat!

Religulous

I know most of atheospace has already seen Bill Maher's anti-religious diatribe but as far as I'm concerned it was worth waiting for. A glorious 101 minute sneer & sniggerfest. How did Bill find so many idiots I wonder? Did he interview them first and pick only the stupid ones? Or are all religious people stupid? Or am I being overly subjective and only perceive religious people to be stupid when they are talking about their IMF and, after all, that was what they were in the film to do? Perhaps that is it. I can recall one exception in the film; a jolly old RC priest interviewed in Rome who seemed to be taking his religion with some scepticism and god was not mentioned.

I have a few friends who are religious but seem perfectly normal in their everyday lives. They probably know my views and, of course, the subject of religion is avoided. The Cof E clergymen I have encountered also seem very sane, decent chappies but again they rarely mention god outside church. Indeed one sometimes gets the impression that belief in god is completely optional for C of E membership, although this happy compromise is in risk of being undermined by the obnoxious Alpha Course. I remember seeing the Archbish RW being interviewed by Richard Dawkins. His statement of belief seemed so ethereal that I was unable to reach any conclusion about his mental capabilites

The NSS are atheist bigots!

See Daily Telegraph article by Anglican Ed West.

Oh no they're not! Quedula has left a short comment.

It is good to see that feathers are being ruffled.

The Alpha Course

I have just passed the time of day with the local vicar, a very pleasant chap, who was in the process of hanging a banner outside the vicarage announcing; "The Alpha Course. Explore the Meaning of Life". I thought Monty Python had already covered this subject quite satisfactorily but, assuming the intention is to take it a tad more seriously, haven't they jumped the gun a bit? I would have thought at least 2 introductory courses are required. Firstly to establish what is the meaning of "Meaning" in this context. Secondly to determine if life has to have any meaning over and above the vague waffle usually aimed at providing comfort to the intellectually challenged.

I am very tempted to enroll.

Richard Dawkins on ABC TV

C.of.E on brink of 'losing' 24 million 'members'

"In the modern era of human rights, how long can a religious body continue to claim privileges based on a religious ritual carried out on babies when most of those babies once grown do not continue to practise the religion? Or does Anglicanism at that point become a matter of ethnicity rather than faith?

Given the growing militancy of the National Secular Society and of the human rights lobby, I can't see this situation lasting. It can't be much longer before the established Church is shrunk down to its true size, without losing any 'real' members but perhaps losing some of its status. And only God knows where that will leave the '80-million strong Anglican Communion'."

Extract from an article by the Times Religious Correspondent, Ruth Gledhill.

University Students

The monthly meeting of the Brighton & Hove Humanist Society last night enjoyed a talk by a Politics & Philosophy student of Sussex University. The title was "The Future of Belief". Like many of us he believed that the Church of England was in irreversible decline but that the intolerant, primitive aspects of Islam was a threat that couldn't be ignored. One of the more encouraging points he made was that on university campus the proportion of students who took any interest in religion was probably under 1%.