Thursday 16 September 2010

Richard Dawkins reacting to the Pope's first speech on British soil.

 The Pope said:- 
"Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny” (Caritas in Veritate, 29)."

This statement by the pope, on his arrival in Edinburgh, is a despicable outrage. Even if Hitler had been an atheist, his political philosophy was not based upon atheism and had no connection with atheism. Hitler was arguably (and by his own account) a Roman Catholic. In any case he enjoyed the open support of many of the most senior catholic clergy in Germany and the less demonstrative support of Pope Pius XII. Even if Hitler had been an atheist (he certainly was not), the rank and file Germans who carried out the attempted extermination of the Jews were Christians, almost to a man: either Catholic or Lutheran, primed to their anti-Semitism by centuries of Catholic propaganda about 'Christ-killers' and by Martin Luther's own seething hatred of the Jews. To mention Ratzinger's membership of the Hitler Youth might be thought to be fighting dirty, but my feeling is that the gloves are off after this disgraceful paragraph by the pope.

I feel like bombarding every newspaper in Britain with letters of protest.

The trick to getting letters published is to keep them BRIEF as well as literate and correctly punctuated.

I am incandescent with rage at the sycophantic BBC coverage, and the sight of British toadies bowing and scraping to this odious man. I thought he was bad before. This puts the lid on it.


 Thursday, 16 September 2010 at 1:09 PM 


  1. The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves. The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe; they are intolerant in practice because they do not love.

    -- Father Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.

  2. This comment has been removed by the author.

  3. Dear Dermot, please keep your meandering idiocies about Atheists "not loving" to yourself. You are not better than an 18th century slave owner who thought his chattel were undeserving of sympathy as they were less than human and merely animals.

    Your failure to understand the full humanity of those who claim no faith show just how bigoted you and your ilk are. You disgust me.

  4. Dear Ex-Catholic,

    Let us talk about humanity. For example, 600 million unborn children are killed each day in Britain. One day this country will wake up to the reality of what it has done. Then we shall see that we were more like the Nazis than we realised at the time. They killed Jews; we kill babies.

  5. Thanks for commenting Dermot.

    Not quite understanding you though. Are you suggesting that 600 million extra lives per day should be surviving who don't survive at the moment, for whatever reason you might have in mind.

    If so where are we going to put them all? How is the earth supposed to feed them?

  6. Quedula: If you live the Catholic faith, that is, by living a holy lifestyle, there will be no 'unwanted' pregnancies. When sex is reduced to an indoor sport, it's hardly surprising that the fruits of that sport should be sacrificed on the altar of 'choice'.

  7. You haven't clarified your first statement. Are you saying that 600 million abortions are carried out every day in Britain?

  8. 600 is the figure I heard from the BBC. That's 600 abortions, on average, in Britain each day. That's 200,000 a year.

  9. So, Dermot, how are 1 million unborn children killed in one abortion? There are no species on earth that I know of that can have a million young in one go.

  10. It's quite a masterful media stunt by the Pope. He's deflecting attention from the child abuse scandal, and apparently it's working if people like Richard Dawkins are "incandescent with rage". That's probably exactly what Ratzy was aiming for. He's relying on people generally thinking that the Nazi party was against religion, and I'm guessing that this is a safe bet. He knows better himself, of course, he grew up in Nazi Germany and was working in the church from an early age, which makes all this doubly outrageous.

  11. Mike. you might be interested in the list of Hitler quotes given here:-
    It surely dispels any arguments that he was an atheist or agnostic.

  12. Dear Richard Dawkins you are what? 69Yrs old give or take? Making comment on a war and a faith during a war you have no experience of. I do here is mine: My Pa defended Britain and fought for the freedom of us all. He was a pilot in the RAF during the 2nd world war. He was left deeply traumatised by what he experienced, rarely sleeping more that 4 hours a night, until he died last year at 88Yrs. He flew along side many fiercely brave Polish Roman Catholic crew, his friends, many of whom died for us. My Pa was a devout Roman Catholic dadda to all 9 of us and a community man through and through. He didn’t do love thy neighbour more like love thy village! That would be down to his Catholic upbringing Richard! I can hear him now chortling to himself, he was never outraged (not like me) “Now then Richard Dawkins if RC folk like me hadnt protected your freedom you wouldnt be writing that piece today would ya”…. Chuckle chuckle that’s what me dadda would smile say about you as your article was used to wrap our Friday night fish supper! So good on you Richard express yourself it’s what Pa fought for it and tickles this Roman Catholic Family to bits that you can! Freedom of speech lets never forget ALL those who kept it safe for us, and may those who have passed rest in peace

  13. Paul Brown: sorry, I posted carelessly in my original post. Just to confirm there are 600 abortions each day in Britain, not six million per day!!! 600x365=219000 abortions per year in Britain.

  14. . . . .and the way to reduce abortions is to use contraception which the catholic church forbids. Of course most catholics in the developed countries of the world ignore the Vatican's teachings on this. It is poor people of the third world suffer the most damaging effects.

  15. Atheists love just fine, "Dermot". What they don't love is jerks like you.

    When bigots of your ilk have put some distance between them and us, we suddenly become nice again.

  16. Why does an atheist care what the Pope says?

  17. @Vanya. I Imagine RD would say 'for the good of mankind'.

  18. Hitler was a Catholic. Nazi uniforms had slogan "Gott mit uns" ("God on our side") engraved on belt buckles. Stalin also not atheist, according to own guards:
    Letter from TLS Novemeber 21, 2008
    Stalin at prayer

    Sir, -- A pendant to the letter from Ann Shukman (October 31) concerning Mikhail Bakhtin's strong involvement with Orthodox Christianity.

    Joseph Stalin was also a regular worshipper in a special private chapel inside the otherwise completely closed cathedral inside the Kremlin. The evidence? An interview on the spot with one of his former bodyguards, one of whose tasks was to escort him there every day at 4 p.m. and wait While Stalin knelt in prayer for thirty minutes or so -- in the amazing (but obviously little-seen or commented-upon) documentary on the complete refurbishement of the Kremlin shown on BBC2 early in 2007.

    David F. Cheshire
    The Old Rectory, Appledram Lane
    North, Chichester

    TLS November 21 2008

  19. whatever the problems with its teaching, which are many, and even whatever its history, standing on the field at Bellahouston with RC's many of whom disagree at least as forcibly, I could not but be impressed with the love and joy that was there.
    The nastiness of atheism, without the corrective that is there for nasty religious folk, becomes quite obvious, both in Prof Dawkins' outbursts and some of the posts above.
    Hitler, by the way, was far worse than atheist: he twisted faith for evil ends.

  20. @Wingbeat. One finds love & joy everywhere. Certainly the Catholic church does not hold the monopoly.

    The religious believer is a mental slave to an insubstantial idea, a phantom presence inculcated in a youthful developing mind with the object of control and obedience. It develops with the mind to become a source of mental refuge and comfort, and consequently becomes near impossible to expel.

    To claim to be in communication with this phantom does not provide the claimant any special authority for the issuing of moral and ethical diktats which can deleteriously affect peoples' lives. On the other hand it doesn't disqualify him either. It is just necessary for him to back up his advice with evidence and rational argument

  21. @Wingbeat i like and agree with your post. @quedula I agree with you one does finds love & joy everywhere. and certainly the Catholic church does not hold the monopoly, @Wingbeat did not say we did! neither do I!
    I am concerned by the direction you have taken in your post. What is the aim of your post? What do you want to happen? Do you want all religious believers to be gathered together and expelled from the UK? What? You do not sound very loving or joyful you sound full of hatred. You call us "Mental Slaves" do you mean I am stupid for having my beliefts? Please expand on your vision for us "Religious believers" where do you see us in your world? With our choice to believe removed / outlawed?........

  22. @Double. You seem to be describing your emotional reactions to my post rather than taking issue with any of the specific points I make in it. My aim is simply to say what I think, as does the Pope.
    Everyone has the absolute liberty to believe exactly what they want. How could it be otherwise? I suppose my post sounds rather serious but I don't know why you read hate into it. In any case it is directed at religious belief, not the believer. No, I do not think you stupid for having beliefs. I suppose the most I might say was that you had a rationality deficit in that particular area. But I do not know you so that would be presumptious.

  23. @quedula you have read emotion into my post that was not there. I simply asked valid questions as your post read "The religious believer is ....." not "Belief in religion is.... " As you have clarified that this was a mistake and your post was infact "directed at religious belief, not the believer. No," it reads you must admit in quite a different way.

    BTW I still dont know what you want to achieve? What is the eventual outcome that you would like to see as a result of your argument?

    As a Biochemist I have always had an enquiring mind at times fervently rational too hee hee :-)